Date: September 14, 2011

 

Attendance

Board Members

            Present: Jim McCann, David Decker, Ray Garber

                          Joe Nicoloff, Gary Kluckman, Don Austin.

            Excused: Scott Webber

            Quorum Present: Yes

 

Others Present

            Holishor Members Present 10

            Glenn Dalton and Kellie Crider from Holishor Office

 

Proceedings

Meeting called to order at 7:30 PM

Pledge of Allegiance Recited

 

Minutes of August 24, 2011

Action: David Decker motions to approve, Don Austin seconds

Motion carries

 

Bills & Salaries

Action: Gary Kluckman motions to approve, David Decker seconds

Motion Carries

 

Profit Loss Budget

Discussion

 

Transfers of Property

Action: Gary Kluckman motions to approve, Don Austin seconds

Motion Carries

 

Manager’s Report

Given by Glenn Dalton

 

Security Report

Given by Glenn Dalton

 

Correspondence

Read by Joe Nicoloff

Crystal Goodwin Ballroom Rental Waiver of Fees

Action: Don Austin motions to waive the rental fees, Jason Hicks seconds

Motion Carries

 

Finance Committee

Given by David Decker

Action: David Decker motions to raise the fee for lien filing to $75 from $50 per every lien filing starting January 1, 2011, Joe Nicoloff seconds.

Conversation Ensues

Voting to commence at the December 14th 2011 meeting, to be sent to the Rules Committee

Interest Rates on Dues & Assessments

We currently charge a late fee of 1.5% a month on accounts. There has been discussion about if it was appropriate, if it should be more or if we should go to a flat fee. There was not clear recommendation from the Finance Committee but they wanted to get the boards input on it and if they would be interested in changing that.

Conversation Ensues

To be discussed further.

 

Old Business

Covenant Voting

Voted by Membership: 348

Voted by Proxy: 187 (Includes Holishor Votes)

Total Votes: 535

Jim McCann: If you have not voted please vote, as you can see we are getting votes in very slowly. A lot of people have called the office and have lost their ballots or have thrown them away. We are going to start using alternative methods to getting ballots.

 

New Building Rule Non Compliance

Presented by Jason Hicks

Non-Compliance of Building Rules Permit Process By Jason Hicks

A member found to be in violation of the HSBAR permit approval process will be required to retroactively complete and submit the appropriate permit and pay the associated fee.  Failing to obtain a permit constitutes violation of the permit process.  Upon approval of the permit, all current stipulations indicated in the rules or contingency for permit approval will apply, but the dollar amount normally refunded upon completion of the project will be forfeited as a fine.  Violations of HSBAR rules or permit stipulations may result in additional fines or suspension of the right to use Association facilities.

Pre-existing structures that are not compliant with current HSBAR rules are required to obtain an HSBAR inspection for consideration of retroactive permit or variance.  Determination of such will be based on type of structure, longevity, condition, safety considerations, and any other pertinent information.  Variances granted to pre-existing structures will be kept on file with the Association.  Variances are not valid for alterations, repairs or replacement structures unless otherwise stated in the variance documentation. 

 

PROPOSED RULE FROM BUILDING COMMITTEE

Building Rules

NON-COMPLIANCE OF PERMIT PROCESS

 

A member not in possession of or in violation of our permit approval process will be required to complete the appropriate permit and pay the appropriate fee; however, the amount normally refunded will be forfeited as a fine. Upon approval of a permit all current stipulations indicated in the rules will apply and violations shall be just cause for monetary fines as well as the suspension of a member’s right to use Association facilities. Warning letters may be issued by the Holishor Association prior to any monetary fine or suspension of a member’s right to use Association facilities.

 

 

Gerry Theodor 1346: I don’t have a problem with either, but with the second one I am concerned the last paragraph where dealing with existing structures, though I support it I know what kind of problems it brings and if it passes the only thing my committee would ask for is what would the guidelines be on how to do this?

David Decker: You would follow the same rules as now, if it doesn’t meet the requirements they would submit a variance and send it to the board.

Conversation Ensues

Rich Hertel 679: Is there a written approved process that takes a written violation, *???* if I heard correctly, it said pre-existing structures that are not compliant? Who is making that determination? It almost sounds like they are guilty before there is a process, is there anything documented?
Glenn Dalton: That would be the Building Rules.
Rich Hertel 679: So they specify how a potential violation goes into an actual violation?
Glenn Dalton: Yes they do. The first thing we do is pull the file and do a history search to see if it was approved to be built like that, and see if there is a file showing what the rules were when it was built.

Conversation Ensues

Action: Joe Nicoloff motions to consider the rule written by the rules committee to go forward with, David Decker seconds.

Motion Carries

I am not putting in the minutes that Gerry said he was not speaking at the next meeting.

Conversation Ensues

 

Boat Lift Rule
Only the last 2 paragraphs were read.

All lift installations require a HSBARC building permit.  The request for permit must include a dimensioned drawing of location, showing all property lines, setbacks and the location of the lift on the lot along with the lift dimensions, anchoring methods and description of flotation materials if required.

Lifts removed for maintenance or winter storage do not require a subsequent permit, provided the following stipulations are met.

·         The same lift is used, and

·         The lift is placed to the same requirements of the original approved permit or it is properly installed without a permit prior to the passage of this rule, and meets all of the requirements specified in the Holishor Association Building & Architectural Requirements.

Conversation Ensues

Currently we do not have a rule for Boat Lifts, it has been suggested that we need to take an inventory of all current docks and lifts on the lake.

John Pretti 393: Currently there isn’t a rule for boat lifts, what is the reasoning for creating one now?

David Decker: The idea is to control the installation so that they follow the rules.

Jim McCann: There is a rule for installing one, but since we don’t have a permit for it we can’t regulate it.

*I can’t understand John*

Gerry Theodore: The current rules state that it has to be within the confines of the dock, this just clarifies that it needs to have a permit.

Conversation Ensues

Action: Jason Hicks motions to approve the boat lift rule as proposed, Gary Kluckman seconds.

For: 2

Against: 3

Motion Fails

 

Building Committee Permit Costs

Conversation Ensues

Action: Gary Kluckman motions to table this until the next meeting, fails due to lack of second.

Conversation Ensues

Action: David Decker motions to approve the building permit cost changes as amended, *I didn’t catch who seconded*

Motion Carries

 

New Business

Write Off 1419 Biscay

Action: David Decker motions to write off the balance of $2303.02, Don Austin seconds

Motion Carries

 

Write Off 1781 Captians

Action: David Decker motions to write off the balance of $2434.00, Don Austin Seconds

Motion Carries

 

Going back to the Building Fee

Action: David Decker motions to file the changes to the fee structure and the culvert rule according to the recently passed bylaws, Don Austin seconds.

Motion Carries

 

Open Floor

Bob Wheeler 1934: I have been a member for 45 years and I am here to represent the people that live in the other sub division. We have 2 of them here, if you drive through gate G you don’t know if you are going through Sherwood Forrest or Poverty Hollow. I have some pictures to show you. They cut the grass at the main entrance once a week, we can’t get the brush cut on the side of the road once a year. I would like for you to drive over there. There is a guard rail there at a very sharp curve, that until the brush dies you can’t see it. I contacted the office 4 times personally to get something done. Nothing happened. This spring I caught Jim Perotti having lunch and he tried to do something with it. That intersection there, the corner, is a blind corner. The School Busses and Trucks will cut short if they can’t see you. All I am asking for is a brush cut. If you go up farther, near the stop sign, the brush was around the stop sign, a member fixed it. It’s totally unacceptable.

Gary Kluckman: I agree with him, I drive that route every day. We need to put some extra time and some priority into that area.

Conversation Ensues

Rich Hertel 679: I would like to ask a request, I have been coming to every meeting since last April and it seems like if you want to say anything in open floor, it can be as much as 2 hours, there are a lot of items that you discuss that are important, but it may not be important to the people out here in the audience. Is there any way it can be discussed about changing the format of the meeting so that like this Gentleman that just spoke here wouldn’t have had to wait 2.5 hours to speak for 5min?

David Decker: Everything we address here is important to every member of the Assocaition. The fact that someone wants to make a comment about something dosen’t make it more important. We are up here every meeting and we are at a lot of committee meetings and I think your comment is completely unfair. We have things we have to get through, the issue that he brought up, he could easily send an email or letter to the office that would get included into our packets which will be part of the correspondence and will be included later. But if you want to speak in open forum, you are going to be stuck till the end of the meeting. And I will tell you, even according to the rules, we can make everyone submit a request to be in our packet, open floor is a courtesy to the members.

Rich Hertel 679: I respect that but as a member I am just trying to get other people to comes to the meetings and that is the number 1 complaint, I am just the messenger.

Conversation Ensues

 

Joe Roth 1030: I want to defend the board here a bit, I think that this meeting is about the board, they honor us by even letting us here, and I may be wrong, but they break some of the rules here by letting there be a discussion until we go to open floor? Is that correct?
David Decker: I believe that open floor is allowed but the board should be allowed to make all their comments before they allow members to talk.

 

John Pretti 393: I have been reading the recent edition of the Times and I have some concerns and questions about potential rule changes on wake boats and wake boarding, I would like to get a clarification on that? Where does it stand?

Jim McCann: Currently the boating committee, tonight as a matter of fact, sent a recommendation to the board, which we have not yet seen, about any changes or modifications they felt nessicary for the board to consider. They were submitted right before the meeting and the board will be looking at those before the next meeting.

John Pretti 393: Is this something that would have to be voted on by the membership?

Jim McCann: The bylaws stipulate that the membership has given the board permission to change rules. It doesn’t necessarily have to go to the membership because it is a rule and not a bylaw.

Conversation Ensues

I am not putting Jim and John arguing in the minutes, John Pretti was also very incorrect about the board banning boats and I didn’t think we would want that in to prevent further confusion on the membership.

 

Darren Onwiler 301: Just a question concerning wakeboard boats, the proposed length limits that Scott Recommended, that the boats actual length is over what the state stays, its actually 22ft 1in, then IL classifies that as a 22ft boat. I hear that the association is going to measure boats, is does that mean that a boat that was previously allowed will no longer be allowed?

Jim McCann: I am not going to put words in Scotts Mouth but my interpretation of what Scott meant was legal as dictated by the state of IL. If the State of IL says it is 22ft long, that means it is 22ft long. That is what your title says, that is what your registration says. We don’t want to be in the business of going out and measuring every single boat, we don’t have the man power or the time to do this.
Darren Onwiler 301: I agree with you. Furthermore the second half was boats using any type of wake ballast or wake plate, would that only apply to new boats?

David Decker: It is hard for us to say what we will end up with. We just don’t know what is going to be proposed, there will be a lot of conversation on this. We are trying NOT to single anyone out, we are trying to figure out how to help a situation. It was Rich who suggested adding the term legal limit to the wording. Someone made a motion to do it and no one seconded it. As far as the ballast stuff was someone presented how to police it, even if it was illiegal, we can’t even determine what excessive wake is. We are not trying to crucify you, I don’t mean to yell and I apologies for that, we just don’t know where its going to end up.

Darren Onwiler 301: I appreciate that and I understand, just understand that Mr. Pretti and I are passionate about our wakeboarding and its fun with out family, it just makes us upset that it could possibly be taken away. But you can appreciate our side of it as well, we care about it considerably.

David Decker: We appreciate your feedback.

Conversation Ensues

 

Rich Hertel 697: I would like to clarify something for the record, the State of IL Changed the registration process not to include inches. So you can have a boat that is 22ft 3in, if it was titled in MO it would be titled as such and would not be permitted on the lake. Our boating rules, in 4 different places that our boats cannot exceed 22ft in length and the titles do not stipulate the exact length. There is even a measurement guide in the rules that show how to mention the boat. You brought up the XStar, it is 22ft 3in, it is stated on the manufacturer’s website. A 22ft supra is actually 22ft 6in long, if it was coming from MO it would not be permitted. I don’t know where IL is putting these numbers because the manufacturers are putting them. So we are putting boats on the lake that exceed 22ft. Also the over weight capacity is in IL State Law. Wither we decide to enforce the law here, but anyone that exceeds that law it is illegal.  

 

John was not at the Mic and further conversation will be omitted, I am not going to type out the arguments.

Conversation Ensues

 

David Decker motions to adjourn Don Austin seconds

Meeting Adjourns at Way to late.